We got some really good observations from Rodeo, Powder Keg, Boss 45 and WOW. It is helpful to get feed back. Just because there is some grumbling does not mean that the basic concept is flawed.
One needs to remember what we are trying to accomplish with a practice shoot. Our goals should be:
1. To give all of the members an equal opportunity to practice, not a just a select few;
2. To fit the shoot within the time we have, summer time that is 8 a.m. to 1 p.m.;
3. To have fun.
Rodeo suggests we should mimic the CFDA shoots and I agreed. But for a practice shoot this present some problems. With the last man standing format with a 3x, a large portion of our members only get a few rounds. The format we are using insures all the members get about the same amount of shooting. Also, with the last man standing format many leave when they are done and tearing down is left to just a few.
Boss 45 highlighted the potential for sandbagging. I have never believed that has been a problem, but understand that is a concern.
WOW expressed we need to get more rounds in. That is not a format problem, but a space problem. Until we get more lanes, we will have to address this with either Montana Five or 2 out of 3, neither of which is popular.
Try this on for size. A magnificent five on two lanes take 45 minutes. A three person shoot off takes less that 15 minutes.
We shoot a No X shoot from 8 to 11 for seeding purposes. If we have more than 40 shooters, we do Montana Five or 2 out of 3, so that we get more rounds in. Then we divide into brackets by x s and time out and shoot 1x magnificent format down to 5 shooters in each bracket. Then we shoot a magnificent five 2x in each bracket (should take 45 minutes). We finish the day by shooting off the three winners with a bye shoot-off, then one championship round.
If I were doing a jackpot shoot with this format I would suggest that that 75% of the prize money be divided by 15 with each of the top shooters getting 5% and then the Champion getting an additional 10% and each winners getting additional 5%. So split would be Champion 20%, two 2nds get 10% each and 12 others getting 5% each.
What do you think. Your input is appreciated and helpful. Think in terms of the club and not just how it may affect you.
"Quick don't matter much in a gunfight!" Little Bill, Unforgiven.
Friday, January 29, 2016
Monday, January 25, 2016
Tombstone Revisited & Arizona Gunslinger Bracket with Resurrection
The 2016 Tombstone shoot is in the books and as usual the Old Publeo Gunfighters put on a great event. I think the value of the door prizes exceeded the entry fee. This year's event used the Arizona Gunslinger Bracket shoot as a format. For those not familiar with it, that format has a no x seeding shoot for as many rounds as time will permit. Then the shooters are seeded by x s and time out of last round and divided into three brackets, then there is a magnificent one x shoot off with the top three shooters in each bracket winning prize money. The prize money is divided equally between Bracket A, B, and C.
This has been been very popular format for jackpot shoots because of the perception that it allows the average shooter a better chance of winning prize money. The perception is that the A bracket is the fastest and the C bracket the slowest, but in fact that is normally not the case. At tombstone, the fastest bracket was the B bracket. Hanker Hank has given me the results and analyzing it, I find that the average time out of A bracket was .6285, B bracket .6039 and C bracket .6403. Taking just the five fastest shooters in each bracket, the averages were A .4464, B .4088, and C .4924. At tombstone, Powder Keg was dialed in and came from the 5th seed to win A Bracket.
Powder Keg won and everyone says he won tombstone, but I am not sure he was the best shooter on that day. Two/thirds of the field did not have a chance to compete against him. Fastest shooter there was Witlock with a timeout of .332, but he was in Bracket B.
It has always annoyed me that the winner of Bracket A claims to have won the shoot (think loverboy) when 2/3rds of the field does not have the opportunity to make it to 1st place.
The Arizona Bracket shoot works best with small to medium shoots. At Tombstone there were 55 shooters and we only got four seeding rounds. That means that the luck of the draw has more to do with where you are seeded and where you place than how you are shooting. If you draw the best three shooter you go down to the bottom in the bracket shoot or out in a last man standing, even if you are shooting well and are the 4th best shooter there. With small numbers you get more seeding rounds and so there is a chance to overcome a tough series of shooters.
WE CAN IMPROVE ON THIS FORMAT. By adding a resurrection feature, we can give each shooter a chance to make it to first. What you do is to shoot the Arizona Gunslinger Bracket as normal, and then take the top three shooters in each bracket and shoot them off. You put all of the 1s on lanes 1 & 2 and they are shooting for 1st, 2nd and 3rd with A 1 getting a bye, you put all of the 2s on lane 3&4 shooting for 4th 5th and 6th with A 2 getting a bye, and you put all of the 3s on lane 5 & 6 and they are shooting for 7th 8th and 9th.
Every shooter has a chance to make it to 1st no matter where they are seeded. No one is out until the fat lady sings.
We tried the Arizona Gunslinger Bracket Shoot with Resurrection last Saturday and it worked. Adding the additional rounds only added two more rounds and about 10 minutes to the shoot. We had 42 shooters participate in the shoot off. EB was seeded 39th, being in bracket C, and he was unstoppable, winning 8 matches in Bracket C and two matches against the other number 1s to win the event. HawgLeg Willie was seeded 17th and moved up to place 7th. Powder Keg was on fire again being seeded 8th and moved up until he met the number one seed Lawless Speed. Lawless Speed finished 2nd and Powder Keg finished 4th. We had one tenderfoot shooter, Coyote Kid, seeded 29th who finished 9th. Our Billy the Kid shooter, Buckeroo Ben, was seeded 28th and finished 6th.
Looking at the breakdown of the top nine, we had 2 three shooters, two four shooters, two five/six shooters, two long guns, two 7/8 shooters, and two youth.
The format rewards the best gunfighter, not necessarily the quickest nor the slowest, but the ones who in the shoot offs are shooting the best. It is interesting to note that we had seven World, National, Territorial, State champions shooting Saturday, none of whom made the top nine. The Champions were pretty much evenly distributed among the three brackets. The fastest shooter there got mowed downed by EB in Bracket C.
Some might says the the lack of the Champions in the final nine means format is not good, but I don't think so. The Champions just were not hitting and it you don't hit you don't win. To do well in this format, what is needed is consistency. You must shoot well in each and every match and for a lot of matches.
SPEED BIAS: There is a speed bias built in since seeding is done by xs and time out. Also the A shooters get a bye. One would expect the speed to be in Bracket A, which among the nine, both of the 3 shooters came from Bracket A. The two fastest shooters were in Bracket B and C. You can't miss fast enough to win.
Saturday's shoot was just for practice and was not for prize money.
However, if and when it is used of a jackpot shoot, prize money can be distributed 1 through 9, thereby alleviate one of the complaints we hear about the bracket shoot.
MAJOR TITLED EVENTS: The Arizona Gunslingers Bracket Shoot with Resurrection would make a great warm-up event at a titled shoot. Warm-up event should be just that, a chance to get dialed in and prepared for the main event. With the last man standing format, say 3x, 25% of the field only gets three matches.
With two ranges, you can shoot everyone together for the seeding rounds and get probably get 6 or 7 rounds in if you have 60 shooters or 5 or 6 with 80 shooters. Then seed by xs and time out into 6 brackets. Shoot three brackets one range and three brackets on the other. Shoot offs on each range would remain separate and you would have 9 places set on one range and 9 places on the other. So you could pay out prize money to a total of 18 shooters. Sounds like fun
One big advantage, after the seeding rounds, you do not need the computer. Everything is set up on paper.
Well, what do you think?
"Remember boys quick don't matter, if you don't hit that which you are trying to be quick about."
This has been been very popular format for jackpot shoots because of the perception that it allows the average shooter a better chance of winning prize money. The perception is that the A bracket is the fastest and the C bracket the slowest, but in fact that is normally not the case. At tombstone, the fastest bracket was the B bracket. Hanker Hank has given me the results and analyzing it, I find that the average time out of A bracket was .6285, B bracket .6039 and C bracket .6403. Taking just the five fastest shooters in each bracket, the averages were A .4464, B .4088, and C .4924. At tombstone, Powder Keg was dialed in and came from the 5th seed to win A Bracket.
Powder Keg won and everyone says he won tombstone, but I am not sure he was the best shooter on that day. Two/thirds of the field did not have a chance to compete against him. Fastest shooter there was Witlock with a timeout of .332, but he was in Bracket B.
It has always annoyed me that the winner of Bracket A claims to have won the shoot (think loverboy) when 2/3rds of the field does not have the opportunity to make it to 1st place.
The Arizona Bracket shoot works best with small to medium shoots. At Tombstone there were 55 shooters and we only got four seeding rounds. That means that the luck of the draw has more to do with where you are seeded and where you place than how you are shooting. If you draw the best three shooter you go down to the bottom in the bracket shoot or out in a last man standing, even if you are shooting well and are the 4th best shooter there. With small numbers you get more seeding rounds and so there is a chance to overcome a tough series of shooters.
WE CAN IMPROVE ON THIS FORMAT. By adding a resurrection feature, we can give each shooter a chance to make it to first. What you do is to shoot the Arizona Gunslinger Bracket as normal, and then take the top three shooters in each bracket and shoot them off. You put all of the 1s on lanes 1 & 2 and they are shooting for 1st, 2nd and 3rd with A 1 getting a bye, you put all of the 2s on lane 3&4 shooting for 4th 5th and 6th with A 2 getting a bye, and you put all of the 3s on lane 5 & 6 and they are shooting for 7th 8th and 9th.
Every shooter has a chance to make it to 1st no matter where they are seeded. No one is out until the fat lady sings.
We tried the Arizona Gunslinger Bracket Shoot with Resurrection last Saturday and it worked. Adding the additional rounds only added two more rounds and about 10 minutes to the shoot. We had 42 shooters participate in the shoot off. EB was seeded 39th, being in bracket C, and he was unstoppable, winning 8 matches in Bracket C and two matches against the other number 1s to win the event. HawgLeg Willie was seeded 17th and moved up to place 7th. Powder Keg was on fire again being seeded 8th and moved up until he met the number one seed Lawless Speed. Lawless Speed finished 2nd and Powder Keg finished 4th. We had one tenderfoot shooter, Coyote Kid, seeded 29th who finished 9th. Our Billy the Kid shooter, Buckeroo Ben, was seeded 28th and finished 6th.
Looking at the breakdown of the top nine, we had 2 three shooters, two four shooters, two five/six shooters, two long guns, two 7/8 shooters, and two youth.
The format rewards the best gunfighter, not necessarily the quickest nor the slowest, but the ones who in the shoot offs are shooting the best. It is interesting to note that we had seven World, National, Territorial, State champions shooting Saturday, none of whom made the top nine. The Champions were pretty much evenly distributed among the three brackets. The fastest shooter there got mowed downed by EB in Bracket C.
Some might says the the lack of the Champions in the final nine means format is not good, but I don't think so. The Champions just were not hitting and it you don't hit you don't win. To do well in this format, what is needed is consistency. You must shoot well in each and every match and for a lot of matches.
SPEED BIAS: There is a speed bias built in since seeding is done by xs and time out. Also the A shooters get a bye. One would expect the speed to be in Bracket A, which among the nine, both of the 3 shooters came from Bracket A. The two fastest shooters were in Bracket B and C. You can't miss fast enough to win.
Saturday's shoot was just for practice and was not for prize money.
However, if and when it is used of a jackpot shoot, prize money can be distributed 1 through 9, thereby alleviate one of the complaints we hear about the bracket shoot.
MAJOR TITLED EVENTS: The Arizona Gunslingers Bracket Shoot with Resurrection would make a great warm-up event at a titled shoot. Warm-up event should be just that, a chance to get dialed in and prepared for the main event. With the last man standing format, say 3x, 25% of the field only gets three matches.
With two ranges, you can shoot everyone together for the seeding rounds and get probably get 6 or 7 rounds in if you have 60 shooters or 5 or 6 with 80 shooters. Then seed by xs and time out into 6 brackets. Shoot three brackets one range and three brackets on the other. Shoot offs on each range would remain separate and you would have 9 places set on one range and 9 places on the other. So you could pay out prize money to a total of 18 shooters. Sounds like fun
One big advantage, after the seeding rounds, you do not need the computer. Everything is set up on paper.
Well, what do you think?
"Remember boys quick don't matter, if you don't hit that which you are trying to be quick about."
Friday, January 1, 2016
Proverbs from Shady Mountaiin
When confronted by a verbal barrage a gunslinger can step to the line and resolve the matter by wax or issue a retort. Such great retorts are for example:
Don't be too sure you are quicker than me!
Been quick enough so far!
Appaloosa
You just shot an unarmed man!
Well, he should have armed himself if he is going to decorate his saloon with my friend!
Unforgiven
I have to put up with a daily barrage from Shady Mtn, most times I just let it slide but sometimes have the energy to retort.
Your New Years resolution is something that shouldn't go in one year and out the other.
Let the deaf hear and the blind see!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Losing a marble can not be undone, only forgotten.
Never forgotten, only mourned.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A gunfighter must be aware of his surroundings and the state of his firearm.
And that of his prospective opponent!
Nope, one can't worry about opponent's state or equipment.
Thought that is what you did, made sure he was loaded to dry fire.
He better follow your lead, he can't remember what he did.
Heh, we are kind of on a roll, seeded in the top three two months in a row.
Not bad.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heh, on your way out of town would you stop by, I would like hear a couple more clanks in my bucket.
Retired my short guns. I don't exist anymore. Can't compete. Going to my smitthy to get my scatter gun worked on. Out of time as usual.
Sure go ahead and quit after you have all of the marbles. Bat Masterson wouldn't do that.
I'll be back
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was some pitiful shooting yesterday.
You did good, Progress for me, Maybe I can't do what I want. We'll see.
Quick don't matter much unless you can hit that which you are trying to be quick about.
You should have put a marble in anyway
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be too sure you're quicker than me;
Been known to go to the shift in a tight spot.
Been quick enough so far.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Started off bad, finished good, beat powder keg 2 out of three.
Good, he needs a little humbling!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not shooting faster than average is what keeps the average down.
I think you better rethink that, not shooting faster than average is what keeps the average up. Been listening to those bureaucrats too long, up is down and down is up, and we can cut spending by spending more.
If you shoot faster then the average goes up, better have another cup.
Guess we need to go back to school. Up is down, down is up. I know the government told me so.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
He who fears losing marbles is certain of defeat.
Difference between you and me and the Shelton boys, you got feelings.
I know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teach yourself not to be afraid of losing a marble or two but treat the experience as a lesson.
Better to give than to receive
I like that thought.
A perfect season is where in every match your opponent is quicker than you, every match goes to 2-2, and you win half and lose half.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
All the mistakes I've made while shooting for marbles was when I wanted to say yes and said no.
Don't cry over spilled marbles.
==================================
When you believe you have lost the power and control of your draw, nothing will ever seem easy or simple.
You talking to me or rather about me. Getting disheartened.
It's just talking in general, "if the shoe fits wear it."
"You should never kick a sleeping dog," if the shoe fits wear it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, A mind is a terrible thing to waist.
Waste not, want not, and add to the waist.
OK, whatever.
Noted in new rules our two handed shooters must "where" an identifying object. Never no if it's the computer or a smarter wit, or just a typo. My chip does most of my writing.
I am aware of that but forgot, that's why your there to keep me out of trouble.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh thanks, you're a big help, don't strain yourself, wish I thought of that.
Don't get huffy. Just don't know why or what they are suggesting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What you get for Christmas.
Nothing yet, Lump of coal. Been naughty so says little woman.
Well remember, If the shoes fits wear it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If one complies he quotes from facebook, does that make one a published author?
Nope, only me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unretorted proverbs from Shady Mtn:
If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speed will not cease to exist even if done within the scope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Difficulties strengthen the mind, as bucket work does your accuracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no luck in Cowboy Fastdraw except where there is discipline, which some of us have none.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok go to bed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The final test of a leader is that he leaves behind him in other men the conviction and the will to carry on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whover is selected for line judges duty should study people's excuses, it's human nature
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Practice is the hardest part of learning, and training is the essence of transformation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Employ your time in improving your draw at the camp so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.
Don't be too sure you are quicker than me!
Been quick enough so far!
Appaloosa
You just shot an unarmed man!
Well, he should have armed himself if he is going to decorate his saloon with my friend!
Unforgiven
I have to put up with a daily barrage from Shady Mtn, most times I just let it slide but sometimes have the energy to retort.
Your New Years resolution is something that shouldn't go in one year and out the other.
Let the deaf hear and the blind see!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Losing a marble can not be undone, only forgotten.
Never forgotten, only mourned.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A gunfighter must be aware of his surroundings and the state of his firearm.
And that of his prospective opponent!
Nope, one can't worry about opponent's state or equipment.
Thought that is what you did, made sure he was loaded to dry fire.
He better follow your lead, he can't remember what he did.
Heh, we are kind of on a roll, seeded in the top three two months in a row.
Not bad.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heh, on your way out of town would you stop by, I would like hear a couple more clanks in my bucket.
Retired my short guns. I don't exist anymore. Can't compete. Going to my smitthy to get my scatter gun worked on. Out of time as usual.
Sure go ahead and quit after you have all of the marbles. Bat Masterson wouldn't do that.
I'll be back
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was some pitiful shooting yesterday.
You did good, Progress for me, Maybe I can't do what I want. We'll see.
Quick don't matter much unless you can hit that which you are trying to be quick about.
You should have put a marble in anyway
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be too sure you're quicker than me;
Been known to go to the shift in a tight spot.
Been quick enough so far.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Started off bad, finished good, beat powder keg 2 out of three.
Good, he needs a little humbling!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not shooting faster than average is what keeps the average down.
I think you better rethink that, not shooting faster than average is what keeps the average up. Been listening to those bureaucrats too long, up is down and down is up, and we can cut spending by spending more.
If you shoot faster then the average goes up, better have another cup.
Guess we need to go back to school. Up is down, down is up. I know the government told me so.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
He who fears losing marbles is certain of defeat.
Difference between you and me and the Shelton boys, you got feelings.
I know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teach yourself not to be afraid of losing a marble or two but treat the experience as a lesson.
Better to give than to receive
I like that thought.
A perfect season is where in every match your opponent is quicker than you, every match goes to 2-2, and you win half and lose half.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
All the mistakes I've made while shooting for marbles was when I wanted to say yes and said no.
Don't cry over spilled marbles.
==================================
When you believe you have lost the power and control of your draw, nothing will ever seem easy or simple.
You talking to me or rather about me. Getting disheartened.
It's just talking in general, "if the shoe fits wear it."
"You should never kick a sleeping dog," if the shoe fits wear it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, A mind is a terrible thing to waist.
Waste not, want not, and add to the waist.
OK, whatever.
Noted in new rules our two handed shooters must "where" an identifying object. Never no if it's the computer or a smarter wit, or just a typo. My chip does most of my writing.
I am aware of that but forgot, that's why your there to keep me out of trouble.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh thanks, you're a big help, don't strain yourself, wish I thought of that.
Don't get huffy. Just don't know why or what they are suggesting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What you get for Christmas.
Nothing yet, Lump of coal. Been naughty so says little woman.
Well remember, If the shoes fits wear it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If one complies he quotes from facebook, does that make one a published author?
Nope, only me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unretorted proverbs from Shady Mtn:
If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You must do the thing you think you cannot do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speed will not cease to exist even if done within the scope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Difficulties strengthen the mind, as bucket work does your accuracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no luck in Cowboy Fastdraw except where there is discipline, which some of us have none.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok go to bed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The final test of a leader is that he leaves behind him in other men the conviction and the will to carry on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whover is selected for line judges duty should study people's excuses, it's human nature
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Practice is the hardest part of learning, and training is the essence of transformation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Employ your time in improving your draw at the camp so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.
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