I recently had a post banished by the political correctness police, the Comish. Quick Cal was right to delete my post to protect the brand. Aspirin was originally a brand name but its owner lost the right to use it as a brand name because it did not prevent it from becoming a descriptive term. Now onto serious matters.
I am going to move the Board of the Association of Arizona Gunslingers to maintain a log of "bracket reports" for each of our club events. If the Board agrees we will then be able to hold a "CFDA Bracket Shoot" at a club practice shoot. It would be identical to what is done at a title match. Brackets are formed based on the prior main match performance. Seems easy but!
The but is what do you do about club top gun points. Here in Phoenix we have two clubs. I am a member of both clubs. Rio bases club points on a 24 point system and uses the seeding rounds to assign points. At Rio, shoot off results do not count. The Arizona Gunslingers use a CFDA-like 40 point system and base the points on the shoot off results. In effect both club arbitrarily assign higher points to Bracket A, then B, then C as shown on the seeding report, a timeout report.
If you hold a CFDA bracket shoot as a club event what do you do about assigning club points. The Camp followers are going say it is obvious the Master Gunfighter bracket should get the top points. But that is not right, then you are just assigning points on a classification, not performance. That is not the cowboy way.
My suggestion would be a Magnificent 12 1x shoot off among the top three in each bracket. I would seed them arbitrarily for administrative ease but you could seed them as is done in titled matches using the timeout report. (We are going to test the arbitrary method on the 18th and I will compare it to the CFDA method in a later post) Those 12 would get the top 12 point numbers. For example, #1 would get 40, #2 would get 37 and so on at Arizona Gunslinger events. At Rio, you would go from 24 points.
For the remainder of the field the gunfighters would start with the 13th position in points, 23 points for the Arizona Gunslingers and probably 11 points for Rio and progress downward 1 point per position. After the top twelve point positions there would be four gunslinger receiving identical points until the points are exhausted. The points would accurately reflect the performance of the competitors. Sounds like a reason solution to me. What do you think?
Back to the silliness of the day. The Loess Hills Added is more of a Class D event than most club shoots. Had we been using the Loess Hills range it would have been because that is the requirement for using the range. Anyway, I apologize if I offended anyone, as I emailed Cal, I do ride for the brand but sometimes stray a bit.
Be it known, this is not a criticism of either system or the reasons for their existence, just an attempt to explain. How you choose to assign Arizona State/Club points will have to be sorted without me trying to influence. Now, the Arizona bracket shoot and the CFDA bracket shoot have very little in common with each other except when the AZ bracket is a "jackpot match" because that is really all a CFDA bracket shoot is. Each bracket is a single jackpot shoot with bracket assignment set by speed performance in the concurrent sanctioned match. There is no reason for prizes in these matches to be different from one another because it is actually 4 different matches with the competitors more closely matched in speed. That part was simple.
ReplyDeleteNow the AZ bracket is a bit more complicated and quite possibly I don't understand it fully. One of it's goals as I remember Mr. Hitch, or maybe it was Mr. Ruah, saying is to keep as many shooters as possible shooting throughout the match. As I understand the drawing of an AZ bracket, first the shooters are sorted by X count, then within X count by time, then the lines defining the brackets are drawn. If I remember correctly at Winter Range the brackets were now 5 stand alone matches(we are excluding shootists here as that was handled differently) that paid equally. In Tombstone, the brackets were handled more like a continuation of the seeding rounds and the entire event being one match with all brackets paying out but weighted in favor of the better performers-lower X count, but each bracket was a stand alone match. No complaints with either system, just need to understand how they are different and that they stand alone at each shoot.
Now the AZ bracket and compiling points or even trying to establish lineal placement in even a single shoot. I cannot even begin to try to figure this one out. The CFDA points system has a lineal top to bottom in each division and that is what is produced in a CFDA formatted match whether it be a magnificent shoot off or last man standing. An AZ bracket has 3 lineal top to bottom strings that is trying to be sorted into one lineal string for points to be awarded from match to match. Is number 20 in bracket A deserving of a higher point score than number 1 in bracket B? If number 20 in bracket C runs them all and finishes number 1 in bracket C is that deserving of fewer points than number 20 in bracket A starting and finishing number 20 in bracket A? Should number 4 in bracket A be worth fewer points than number 1 bracket C? The basic problem here in trying to keep a running points total, or even a verifiable placement of first to last in a single match is that an AZ bracket conducted as one match starts as a single, simple lineal placement match but ends with results for 3 separate matches.
Sage, you are mix to much into this. Must have been at Camp to long. I did not say anything about a jackpot. Not involved. All four clubs shoot the AZ Bracket shoot as their club shoot. As you can tell, suggesting anything else may get you lynched. I just thought a CFDA bracket shoot might be fun for a change. I guess we could do as a nonpoint match. I have a great story about Wench and this affair. It was lucky one of our seasoned shooters did not have a rope. Ask me some time.
DeleteI referred to a jackpot match only to point out that is an ideal use of the AZ bracket. And tried to explain, as I see it, the standings results in AZ bracket are actually the results of 3 different matches(each bracket is it's own match) with different shooters competing in each match. Any way you try to combine 3 different matches into one lineal list of all shooters someone is going to feel cheated. A member of the A group will always consider himself better than any member of the B or C group and the champion of the C group could be expected to consider himself better than the loser of the A group. I like the CFDA bracket because it puts competitors on a more even speed footing, but still each bracket is a separate match and the results of one cannot be extrapolated to compare to the results of another. Using the AZ bracket, as I see it, to assign "top gun points" across clubs and across matches it would need to be done from the seeding list for the brackets. That is a lineal list based on the performance of the day, but that makes the bracket part of the match meaningless to the standings.
DeletePeople sure did take this in a lot of directions it didn't need to go.
At our club, we run a No X (Nevada 8) Format in the morning, with as many rounds as we can squeeze in the allotted time. All men, ladies and youth shoot together is these rounds. With 30 shooters or so we can complete a round on 6 lanes in about 20 to 25 minutes. We then create a Bracket Report, set up 3 Brackets, and run 3 Stand Alone 2-X Brackets. It moves very quickly, which we complete in about 1-1/2 hours. We then have a Magnificent 7 Shootoff for the Men's and Fabulous 5 Shootoff for the Ladies, plus any Youth that show up have a shootoff too. We use overall results for club points, using the result of the morning No X Rounds with the shootoffs determining the top places. Everyone gets what they want. A lot of women like shooting with the men, but they still get a separate shootoff at the end. The shooters who qualify high get a shootoff to determine final placing and shooters of all speed abilities have an competitive opportunity. Works for us. We start at 9:00, break for lunch at noon, and finish the day around 2:30.
ReplyDeleteGood system. Would well here November to March. Rest of the year not possible because wax would melt along with our shooters.
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